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February 26, 2004i want a wedding
... but i don't want to get married. i want to wear a beautiful dress and have a big party with all my friends and family and i want to have a fancy dinner and dancing and strange little rituals and speeches and drunk bridesmaids making out with the groomsmen. and when i wake up on my honeymoon i want to still be single. maybe my next birthday party will be a wedding party. i think it's time we went ahead and banned this whole antiquated marriage business anyway - same sex, different sex, polygamy, all of it. it stinks of religion, it's outdated, the state should have nothing to do with it. go ahead and get married under whatever faith you choose, but leave the state out of it. civil unions for everyone!! posted by jane at February 26, 2004 10:54 AM | TrackBackComments
Trust me, you don't want to *pay* for the wedding either. Most expensive best party that we ever threw that we didn't get to really enjoy. I think I had half of a beer in total, and I had about five of them. I kept having to put them down for a photo-op. Or dance. Or embarrassing Best Man speech. Etc. 8 year old bottle of French Champagne (bought in France by my wife back when she was there in high school)? Opened, poured, and only sipped. Then left to rot in sun. And the pains we went through to have just about every "god" removed from the ceremony. Ugh. We still had to hire a Unitarian Minister who was very understanding and dressed himself up as a Catholic Priest so my Grandparents didn't die from a heart attack. All in all, though, it left an impression. People *still* say it's the best wedding they've ever been to. And they tell us this while they're standing in the greet line for their own children's wedding.;) Posted by: Bowler at February 26, 2004 11:05 AMOMG, I so agree. Someone should host an Anti-wedding day parade. It's all ironic for me, because I love weddings, and I someday wouldn't mind marrying my boy sweetling...but sheesh I could really care less about doing it 'the right way'. Not to mention the fact that I work in the special events industry and I've probably seen more drunk bridesmaids and smoochy groomsmen falling into the cake than any human should ever have to witness. All that said...yay for love and parties! Boo for government controlled relationships! People should be able to marry whatever lovely human they care to. Posted by: Kat at February 26, 2004 11:13 AMA little off-topic... but see Little Murders for one of the funniest wedding scenes in cinematic history. The mention of God is a central issue... and when the movie was made in 1971, this was a obviously a bigger issue than it would be now... Posted by: dave at February 26, 2004 11:15 AMdoh. forgot to close that link. should be Little Murders. Posted by: dave at February 26, 2004 11:18 AMHear, hear, Bowler! Zack and I spent about a year and a half planning ours, and were still paying off credit card debts from it. I swear, if the word wedding is even whispered, these vendors triple their prices. Not only is there a huge amount of money spent (we could have made a down payment on a house), but the planning can be quite time consumptive as well checking out bakers, caterers, photographers, florists we wound up in places like Pacheco (dont ask) and Benicia. All that being said, I did get to wear a fantastic dress that my mother paid too much money for, all our friends got boozed up, and everyone tells us that it was the most beautiful wedding theyve been to (but my cynical side thinks thats what they tell every married couple whose wedding they attend). Oh, and they honeymoon is like, the best part of the whole shindig. Posted by: connie at February 26, 2004 11:25 AMDoes the Cacophony society still host the Brides of March Parade in San Francisco? Not quite a "personal" affair but loads of fun: hm. the expense part is kinda scary to comtemplate. and the planning. i'm so* bad at that. well i suppose i'm not destined to have a wedding. i'll just keep throwing together mad-dash birthday parties at the last minute. Posted by: jane at February 26, 2004 11:30 AMCouldn't agree more. I was reading your "wedded bliss" post and thinking exactly what you wrote now.(wanted to comment, but you had "closed" it by then) "i think it's time we went ahead and banned this whole antiquated marriage business anyway - same sex, different sex, polygamy, all of it. it stinks of religion, it's outdated, the state should have nothing to do with it." *amen* Not only it all stinks of religion(*yuck*); it is extremely discriminatory of single people too! ^_^ In my humble opinion the whole thing is completely idiotic and ridiculous, if you love someone why the hell do you need a stupid "official" paper that says so? Write a frking love letter, damn it! Hell, if even I have been able to do it, anyone can. Best wishes uriel -- that treasures the love letters form his ex-gf as his most precious possession Posted by: uriel at February 26, 2004 11:57 AMThat's funny. I was arguing exactly for that in someone else's blog yesterday. Most "marriages" under the law are more akin to civil unions than actual religious unions anyway. My wedding was rendered as nice as could be by eliminating the whole church and 100+ guest party mess: we flew to Hawaii with family and got married by non-denominational minister (because the non-religious one I wanted could not be booked for the dates I wanted) by the beach. If I had to do it over, the only thing I would do differently is not wearing a white wedding dress: it was too hot for anything other than a swimsuit. Anyway, what you want sounds more like a party where you get to wear a ballgown. Redefining it that way will definitely make it cheaper to organize (I agree that having "wedding" in it adds several figure to just about any type of service) Posted by: Annalisa at February 26, 2004 12:33 PMi really dislike all weddings (but love the occasion) and i've been to at least 20 in the last 10 years. in fact, we've received notice for three 2004 weddings so far and it's only march. the celebrated rarely get to spend any quality time with their guests, no matter how hard they try. we got married in a bathtub with only our chosen witnesses (why bore the masses with the details, some travelled far and paid good money to eat your food and drink your booze and if they get a chance to talk to you, COOL), walked out to my family's backyard and told our 80 guests that the party had started. it was an outdoor backyard catered event and the invite announced strictly casual clothing. we wanted our friends OUT OF COSTUME and comfortable. my dad welcomed everybody in three languages and then we told everyone to chow down and get wasted. a lot of our time was spent hanging out all night with old friends. it was great. and people DO fondly recall our wedding. organizing isn't all that hard. from the time that we decided to the time that we married was 6 weeks. we got invites printed, mailed, caterers and food and booze arranged in a few weeks. you just have to focus for a short time. i've seen friends and family organize lavish weddings with 6 - 12 months planning only to be upset about the most minute details the day off. that's no way to celebrate a special day. i planned my 30th birthday bash with much more detail and achieved the same result. my only complaint is that it's hard to enjoy all your guests when you have 100 peeps hanging around. tell me when your party is, we'll be there! :) Posted by: souris at February 26, 2004 01:09 PMIf you just want a big fancy party - I suggest having a Victorian Masked Ball or something like it. :) Although maybe that would also be quite expensive. But a theme party often has great clothes, great friends, strange rituals and people making out in the corner. :) Posted by: qmy5728 at February 26, 2004 01:52 PMI agree with Annalisa, Jane, sounds like what you really want is a "dress to impress" party. Theme it up all "James Bond" or some such, and spend the rest on vodka and gin. You can even have villains make their "Before I kill you, Mr. Bond..." speeches or something. One of my married friends explained that for he and his wife the real significance of the wedding was to get up in front of all your friends and relatives and declaire yourself to your mate. Of course, they also married at a Ren Fest in full get-up. Posted by: ClockworkGrue at February 26, 2004 02:03 PMi think its about going through this terrible ordeal with someone.. arguing with your parents.. making decisions on matters of so little consequence, they pale in comparison to the real yucky life you face together later. (like who really gives a shit in the end what your dishes look like.?!) but it does have a way of bonding you as a couple. cause you plan this event and execute it together, and hopefully learn how to cooperate with one another in the process... Posted by: wendy b at February 26, 2004 02:46 PMTaking the religion and associated baggage out of the equation, we still have the questions of children, legitimacy, and inheritance. Perhaps a civil union can ensure the inheritance part of the children issue, but the question of "legitimacy' is one that comes up all the time and is a very sore spot. Even with the current nonchalant attitudes towards single parenthood, being labeled a bastard is deeply hurtful. So, much as I dislike the silliness associated with marriage, we'd have to change a lot as a people, globally, before I would throw my opinion hat in with the "only civil unions" camp. I don't want to be contentious or rude, so I hope this expression of my opinion is OK with moderator and reader alike. Posted by: sollyz at February 26, 2004 02:50 PMI don't see why inheritance needs to have anything to do with the religious ceremony of marriage. It could easily be coded into a civil union. Also, I'm not so sure that the sting of "bastard" carries much weight anymore. Single parents, same sex parents, adoptive parents all have children considered "legitimate" by any standard expect the most old-fashioned societal ones. These children would definitely inherit, too, even without a will. Posted by: jane at February 26, 2004 05:50 PM"stinks of religion" its not all mel gibson scary stuff. (poor man, he think its his wife who will be going to hell...) Posted by: tomatoes at February 26, 2004 06:19 PMI LOVED my wedding! I agree, the planning brought its share of difficulties, but more to do with all the relationships (in-laws, traditions, etc.) involved. BUT -- it was really a great day, and holds some great memories for me. I think EVERYONE should be able to have a wedding! Even if it's a celebration of being wedded to yourself! as far as offspring are concerned, i have two children which occurred during the confines of a marriage, and now i still have the same two kids without it. and i think an absentee father is just that, anyway you slice it...and i dont think their self esteenm was really affected by our marriage license or our divorce decree..thats just paper work. Posted by: wendy b at February 26, 2004 06:41 PMI got married on Saturday. I spent a year and a half of my life obsessing over details, doleing out obscene amounts of money, trying not to alienate family and friends, and neglecting my relationship with my husband, my job, and my personal interests for this one day. It was a wonderful wedding. Everyone had a great time and they literally had to chase us out of the reception hall, and then half the party came up to our hotel room and continued. It was the best wedding I've ever been too. I was an absolute princess. I loved my dress, my bridesmaids dresses, the flowers, the tuxes, all of it. It was exactly what I wanted. Perfect wedding. But I'm exactly the opposite from you jane. My favorite part of the whole experience was getting married. My husband and I are forever bound to each other. We are now true family. If I had it to do all over again, I'd skip the wedding and get married at the JOP a year and a half ago when we first got engaged. Save myself time and money. I'm so glad that I'm finally a wife, and not a bride. Posted by: jlws at February 26, 2004 09:06 PMbelieve it or not -- my husband and I eloped to avoid a wedding...only to have one, for our family and friends, 5 months later! we loved the private act of getting married -- but also had plenty of fun with the public celebration! But then again -- I love a party. :) I want a wedding again, dammit. Another beautiful dress and much decadence and celebration! Posted by: C(h)ristine at February 26, 2004 10:08 PMcongratulations, jennifer! Posted by: jane at February 27, 2004 09:31 AMgoooin to the chapel and we're..gooonna get married.. Posted by: jesse at February 27, 2004 12:49 PMthe drive-through chapel? cuz that would be CLASSY. uncork the Cook's! it's time to celebrate. Posted by: jane at February 27, 2004 12:54 PMThanks Jane. Actually, we got married in Vegas at Caesar's Palace, but it was a big planned affair. It's funny that you mentioned Vegas. Also, I meant to say that I think anyone should be able to marry whoever they want to marry reagardless of gender. It's a personal decision for every individual to make and to impose your own religious or societal views on someone else's marriage is just silly. My husband and I were married in a traditional Christian ceremony. I am a woman and he is a man, but I am also white and he is black. The thought of someome telling me that I couldn't marry him because of our racial differences is widely considered rediculous, even here in the south. Someday, hopefully, everyone will have the freedom to marry whoever they see fit in the way that is the most meaningful to them. Anything less is not freedom. It shouldn't be a state issue, and certainly not a federal issue. It is without question the most personal issue there is and should be left to each individual. If two men want to marry each other, I don't see how that makes my marriage any less sacred to me and my husband. I also think it's important to emphasize the right not to marry. Many people, especially woman, have a hard time justifying this decision to their friends and family. Marriage isn't right for everyone, and respect to those who recognize that about themselves and don't force themselves into marriages they want no part of. Posted by: jlw at February 27, 2004 02:36 PMjennifer: you are a wise and compassionate woman and i wish you the best in your marriage! may your life bloom with happiness and love. also, interesting that you bring up racial differences - it would do us well to remember that interracial marriage indeed used to be illegal in many states - and in some cases still technically are. seems horrible and strange now to think that used to be the case. of course what Bush and others are saying now about some amendment i also find horrible and strange. Posted by: jane at February 27, 2004 02:45 PMi went to look at junior high schools today for my very impaired child.. i cannot tell you the fear and dread i felt walking down those halls again. but i can report there were hopeful signs. posters put up by the kids saying stop homophobia and end racism... maybe the next generation will do a better job. i hope so. Posted by: wendy b at February 27, 2004 04:20 PMjane, will you marry me? i hear they're doing that sort of thing "...and when i wake up on my honeymoon i want to still be single." You are a wise if not brilliant person. During an interview for Life magazine, Isaac Asimov once called marriage "an outmoded institution". When asked about his wife, Isaac quickly proceeded to change the subject to robots. Supreme court justice David H. Souter, another accomplished fellow, gets lots of guff for not being married. He always triumphantly retorts that he's much happier with the idea of living life single. "gay marriage already exists, just ask the first lady of texas" Posted by: wendy b at February 28, 2004 09:12 AMYour post makes no sense. You say: 1) It's time we "banned this whole antiquated marriage business." 2) Leave the state out of marriage 3) Civil unions for everyone!! #2 and #3 contradict. "Civil union" is a term defined by state law. It does not exist outside state law. #1 and #2 contradict. What does it mean to "ban" marriage without passing a law to that effect? You say you want to state out of marriage. Okay. What happens to those kids when parents divorce? Who decides who gets custody? It's clear you haven't given marriage any serious thought. Posted by: D. Melanogaster at February 28, 2004 09:15 PMomg you could not possibly have children and make a statement like that. i've seen how the state runs their budget do you honestly think i would trust them to do what is in the best interest of my child? Posted by: wendy at February 29, 2004 09:39 AMWendy, I wouldn't trust them either. But if you're husband wants the children, what are you going to do -- kidnap them? I do in fact have children. I detest state interference in my life, and I detest that a judge awarded custody of my two children to my wife. But someone had to decide. So the question still stands: if not the state -- who? It's not a rhetorical question. Someone has to decide. In the real world, divorcees with children do willingly give up custody over a cup of coffee. Someone has to step in and say: this is how it's going to be, and if you don't like it, get used to the inside of a jail cell.
That should read: divorcees with children do NOT willingly give up custody over a cup of coffee. i'm sorry you miss your kids that sucks... truly. and i dont pretend to know all the cicumstances.. but i went to court and i was in a sorta UNique position because he defaulted, and didn't even bother showing up. so i have the lions share of the custodial care, as well as almost the entire financial burden. but my point is this: all of that stuff that transpired in the court room is just paper work. it has no bearing on the worth of my children (which i think is inestimable) and it is also not the proper arena to sort out all those complicated feelings. i left that day with my paltry judgement of 400 a month to support two children in the bay area haha which btw i don't even get! Posted by: wendy b at February 29, 2004 11:14 AMps what about about a kinder gentler approach like a mediator? cause honestly i think the states interest is largely about money.. there are fees to pay for a marriage license and fees to pay for a divorce decree.....because it's pretty clear to me that they have no business mandating anyone's behavior. if they could then that asshole i was married to for ten years would be paying child support. or at the very least providing me with some respite. Posted by: wendy at February 29, 2004 11:57 AMps what about about a kinder gentler approach like a mediator? Sounds like a great idea. So why didn't you do it? Why didn't you let a (non-governmental) mediator guide your affairs? And why did you let the state stipulate $400/mth in alimony? Posted by: D. Melanogaster at February 29, 2004 04:34 PMyou want a wedding? i want a new post. 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